Korra Vs Aang as characters

[Ataru]

When you mentioned that Aang's victory was what allowed for Korra to live a peaceful (sort of boring) life it made me think of the intro to the Zelda CD-i game... so, without further ado:

KORRA CD-I!!!

Korra: Gee, it sure is BORING around here
Tenzin: Ma boi this peace is what all true <Avatars> strive for
Korra: I just wonder what <Amon>'s up to

Toph's Daughter: Your <Avatarness>, <Amon> and his minions have seized the <City of Republic>
Tenzin: Hmm, how can we help?
Toph's Daughter: It is written, only <Korra> can defeat <Amon>

Korra: Great! I'll grab my <airbending>!
Toph's Daughter: There is no time, your <bending of the other elements> is enough

Korra: How about a kiss for luck?
Mako: You've got to be kidding me

Toph's Daughter: <Yip Yip!> we're off!

I... I sort of lost sight of the joke I was making here. Oh well. Source material: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNpLXo55yfw

[Archsage]

I'm not sure I follow how characters with dark pasts are 'unrealistic'. Aang was a very realistic character. Giving Korra something to grieve over wouldn't make her less realistic. I'm not some sadist who just loves to see people suffer, but I'd like them to throw Korra something a little darker to deal with than teen love triangles and her not being allowed to do whatever she wants all the time. I don't doubt it'll get darker when they start really pushing the prejudice vs. benders bit, so I just hope that happens before too long so we can really get into the meat of this story and its characters.

My point is that a character is not "shallow" if they didn't have their family die or something. In fact, no one is ever really shallow. People are always extremely deep -- only circumstances can bring out that depth, however. Making a character unrealistically "dark" might be a great way to do this, but it's extremely common.

The "best" way that I think they should do it, is how it's done in real life. Give a normal character a grave challenge. I was interested in this in the other thread just recently, but what if Korra was energy-bended by Amon, losing her powers, and had to relearn the elements through the past Avatars while she watched the entire global shift in political and ideological thinking in regards to benders, with uprising and revolts overthrowing "bending elite" (which really does rule nearly every society in the Avatar-world) causing global unrest like we have been seeing in real life today.

Through that scenario we would have a completely realistic character through Korra, who doesn't have some dark past or touchy spot or strange mysterious history (typical stuff you see in many other Animations), but is just a girl who is tasked to save the world who literally has to work hard to achieve those ends.

I'm not saying that they should do the show this way, of course. Only that this way would be much more refreshing and less typical to see, and the uncommonality of the show would put it far above other stories in other animations. [Bro, can't I just say Anime? It really is just short for Animations. I mean you even say "Anime-shuns" anyway. It just gets rid of an extra syllable and 5 extra letters typed].

[Ataru]

Call it a cartoon.

And I'd be more willing to buy into the 'working hard to save the world' if there had been a case shown so far of Korra working hard... AT ALL. If she fails at something more than twice she just gives up or ragequits. If there comes a point where she calms down and really has to struggle to climb what seems like an insurmountable problem then yeah I'll consider her a deeper character than what we're being shown right now. But so far all its been is Korra getting her way, ignoring Tenzin's teachings and never really showing any effort.

[Macready84464]

Since when did archsage have a problem with typing a few extra letters? You can't keep this guy from typing anything less than a short novel.

[QiBreezy]

I'm not an expert on Anime (Japanese Cartoons), all I've seen are the more popular ones like Spirited Away, Dragon Ball Z, Doraemon, Full Metal Alchemist, Animatrix (I don't even know if you can call that Anime) and the likes. Why I feel it's valid to call LoK and A:LAB an Anime is because these two cartoons are HEAVILY influenced by the style and structure of a Japanese animation. Is a sonnet only a sonnet if it's in English? Is a haiku only a haiku if it's in Japanese? Is a pantoum only a pantoum if it's in Malay? I understand that the Japanese refer to all cartoons as Anime, but we aren't Japanese. Foreign words are adopted into the English language all the time, and their meanings evolve. It's fine if you're a purist, but you can't deny that 'Cooties' or 'berserk' or 'ketchup' no longer hold the same meaning as it's loaned origin. What I'm trying to say is, it's all a matter of perspective. To a Malaysian, 'cootie' refers to head lice. To an American, cooties is a child lore. Are you gonna deny the evolved meaning of cooties? Just the same as you can't deny the evolved meaning of Anime. But I understand the purist in you. I don't want to call Pitbull a hiphop artist, but unfortunately, in some circles, that's what he is.

Take Animatrix for instance: An American commissioned cartoon done by Japanese animators. What do you want to call it? What would a Japanese kid call LoK?? An anime or a cartoon? He'd call it an anime, coz that's the word he uses to refer to ANY FORM of animation.

As for Korra VS Aang, we need to give more time. Neither of us truly know the depth of her character.

[EDITED]

[Archsage]

And I'd be more willing to buy into the 'working hard to save the world' if there had been a case shown so far of Korra working hard... AT ALL. If she fails at something more than twice she just gives up or ragequits. If there comes a point where she calms down and really has to struggle to climb what seems like an insurmountable problem then yeah I'll consider her a deeper character than what we're being shown right now. But so far all its been is Korra getting her way, ignoring Tenzin's teachings and never really showing any effort.

Well you seemed to have accepted my idea in the "Makorra Kiss" thread but not in this one? Anyway, many people are actually like that; rage quit when they can't do something. Or are you saying that deep characters are only characters who don't get frustrated when they can't do something? Is that even true? I'm not sure I get you're point here.

I think that, because Korra's nature seems to be "rough and tumble", she's really going to have to go through immense strain and conflict with the nature of the world around her. The battle that she's going to face is not a violent one, but an intellectual one. I think that's a good sign that the show is really going to show the richness of Korra's character, and that this was aluded to in episode 2.

When Tezin found Korra at the pro-bending arena and was yelling at her saying something like 'being the avatar is not all about fighting, when will you learn that?'. And Korra sure didn't learn that in that episode.

For example, outside of Aang's "dark past" thing that is pretty cliche in most stories, Aang had a more realistic conflict of whether or not he'll be able to face the Fire Lord and kill him, when Aang is caught up in the "thou shalt not kill" moral that was taught to him by the Monks. I'm pretty sure it'll be the opposite with Korra. She won't be able to just fight everyone who has a problem with benders, while there will surely be a lot of fighting, that's not how the problem is going to be fixed.

Now again, I'm not sure what your against when it comes to having Korra's past be pretty normal. But I'm still making the point that a person doesn't need a dark past or any mysterious nature to be deep. Because all characters are innately deep. What brings out that deepness is circumstance. That's pretty much it -- and Korra doesn't need to lose anyone for that depth to be visible. All she needs is a circumstance of challenge. A world in revolt. Her getting energy-bended. Something to that nature. I mean, what depth did you see in Aang when he first came on in his episode? None, until he came into true conflict of circumstances.

[Sejame]

I'm not an expert on Anime (Japanese Cartoons), all I've seen are the more popular ones like Spirited Away, Dragon Ball Z, Doraemon, Full Metal Alchemist, Animatrix (I don't even know if you can call that Anime) and the likes. Why I feel it's valid to call LoK and A:LAB an Anime is because these two cartoons are HEAVILY influenced by the style and structure of a Japanese animation. Is a sonnet only a sonnet if it's in English? Is a haiku only a haiku if it's in Japanese? Is a pantoum only a pantoum if it's in Malay? I understand that the Japanese refer to all cartoons as Anime, but we aren't Japanese. Foreign words are adopted into the English language all the time, and their meanings evolve. It's fine if you're a purist, but you can't deny that 'Cooties' or 'berserk' or 'ketchup' no longer hold the same meaning as it's loaned origin. What I'm trying to say is, it's all a matter of perspective. To a Malaysian, 'cootie' refers to head lice. To an American, cooties is a child lore. Are you gonna deny the evolved meaning of cooties? Just the same as you can't deny the evolved meaning of Anime. But I understand the purist in you. I don't want to call Pitbull a hiphop artist, but unfortunately, in some circles, that's what he is.

Take Animatrix for instance: An American commissioned cartoon done by Japanese animators. What do you want to call it? What would a Japanese kid call LoK?? An anime or a cartoon? He'd call it an anime, coz that's the word he uses to refer to ANY FORM of animation.

As for Korra VS Aang, we need to give more time. Neither of us truly know the depth of her character.

[EDITED]

Why does this Anime topic keep popping up? I think we should have a sticky somewhere with a description of why A:TLA is not an anime so that quick links can just be posted whenever someone starts bringing it up.

You are talking about anime as if it is a style. It is not a style. There are hundreds/thousands of different styles of anime which have absolutely no similarities whatsoever. Just as there are hundreds/thousands of different styles of cartoons.
We'd have to name every American made cartoon an anime in this case as you could probably find a similar anime for all of them. Why is A:TLA so special?
In your post you even mention that you understand that anime is just what Japanese people call cartoons.
Sure you can call it an anime but you would be wrong and sure you could defend yourself about it but you would also be wrong and come across as a moron who knows he is speaking nonsense but carries on regardless.

As for Aang not having any conflict until he was a victim of circumstance. From the first time we see him he is already a victim of circumstance. He ran away because of the pressures he was feeling of being the Avatar only to get trapped in ice and wake up 100 years later to find that everyone he knows and loves are dead.

[QiBreezy]

Wow. Even after hard evidence of words evolving to become something other than its original meaning, you still won't accept the polarity of this discourse. You sound like a bible hugger denying science. I don't expect you to understand the reality of the case, not even after I'm able to accept your part of the argument. People really need things to be black and white to be in their comfort zone. I'll let you have it hope you can sleep better tonight. If you think all that was said was nonsense, i'm ready to assume you're still in high school.

I'm simply trying to assist you in understanding why such a misnomer would occur... But alas, a closed mind will remain as such. God bless your soul!

[Ataru]

Well you seemed to have accepted my idea in the "Makorra Kiss" thread but not in this one? Anyway, many people are actually like that; rage quit when they can't do something. Or are you saying that deep characters are only characters who don't get frustrated when they can't do something? Is that even true? I'm not sure I get you're point here.

Hmm, while I was disagreeing with other things you said I still think the concept of Amon taking Korra's bending away would be a perfect hurdle for her to overcome.

Edit: Actually no, screw that giving in speech I had written here before. If we're gonna argue semantics let's argue semantics.

QiBreezy you asked what a Japanese kid would call Korra. He'd call it an anime. If you're a Japanese kid feel free to use that and any other Japanese word you want to describe whatever you want. And don't hide this all behind the whole argument of words getting bastardized. Ignorant people using words incorrectly until the new meaning sticks isn't justification. Plus most of the borrowed words we have don't have a good equal in the original language. Like what would we call a sushi if not a sushi? Anime, however, has a direct English equivalent in 'cartoon' or 'animation', so there's no reason to adopt the alternate word.

But your argument was twofold, the first being that we can call it anime because it's based on the anime style. Except, as I've gotten so utterly tired of repeating, anime isn't a style. You call a sonnet a sonnet because there are very distinct rules that make a sonnet, same with a haiku. Can you, or anyone, describe what exactly the 'rules' that make up the anime 'style'? That's my whole problem with it. By using 'anime' to refer to anything -you think- is anime 'style' you're upholding the long, ignorant tradition that all anime are the same, or adhere to the same design style.

I have a much easier method: if it's made in Japan, it's an anime. If you're Japanese, every cartoon is an anime. Otherwise it's a cartoon or an animation.

Therefore Animatrix is an anime. So are the X-Men and Wolverine anime.

Now, since Avatar was technically made in Korea you can feel free to learn the Korean word for 'animation' and use that instead. I won't argue with you on that one.

I want you to understand that I'm not arguing about this because I'm an elitist prick or because I'm a puritan. I'm arguing because I dislike people ignorantly assuming anime is a single 'style' just because that's all they've been exposed to. So yeah, I try to help people not be ignorant. Like when I correct my parents when they call every game system they see a 'Nintendo'.

And I don't even care anymore if new people show up and say this place is inhospitable because we erupt in arguments over whether it's an anime or not every thread. I'll explain this to every single new person who shows up and thinks they can sling around the word 'anime' like they know what it means. Maybe in the end I'll fail and it'll get added to the Oxford Dictionary or whatever as 'term referring to any animation done in the style of Japanese animation' kind of like how it is now on Wikipedia. But I'll fight that day with all my strength because that's BS and anime isn't a style.

[curvedlines]

Wow. Even after hard evidence of words evolving to become something other than its original meaning, you still won't accept the polarity of this discourse. You sound like a bible hugger denying science. I don't expect you to understand the reality of the case, not even after I'm able to accept your part of the argument. People really need things to be black and white to be in their comfort zone. I'll let you have it hope you can sleep better tonight. If you think all that was said was nonsense, i'm ready to assume you're still in high school.

I'm simply trying to assist you in understanding why such a misnomer would occur... But alas, a closed mind will remain as such. God bless your soul!

First of all you're wrong.

You're also talking down to us which I do not appreciate. It's patronizing and rude and you shouldn't be proud of yourself for doing it.

I'm just going to try and state what I think your argument is because you made several statements that make different arguments. You think that LoK is anime because it's drawn in some kind of style that equates to anime. You think that because the animation is high quality that it is an anime and not a cartoon. If this is not correct let me know, in a f*cking respectful way.

You're wrong for these reasons.

There is no single anime style. There are just as many anime styles as there are cartoon styles. They range form ultra stylized anime like FLCL and OnePiece to more traditional styles like Wolf's Rain and Gundam Seed. The number of different anime styles is almost as many as there are different anime. The thing that all these shows have in common and the reason they are anime is that they are developed by Japanese people for a Japanese audience. The characters are written and acted in a way to appeal to a Japanese audience primarily, any other appeal is almost certainly a side effect. Anime typically include Japanese culture-specific things much like our programs include things that appeal to our culture. I think you may also believe, as many seem to, that anime is synonymous with quality which isn't true. There are many low quality shows that are produced for Japanese audiences such as Beyblade and Bakugan to name a few more current examples

You mention

the Animatrix and you say you aren't sure if it's an anime. Well I don't think it is because it wasn't developed by Japanese people for a Japanese audience. It was written and produced by the Wachowski Brothers who got Japanese directors and their animation houses to animate and direct the shorts to be marketed toward and American audience. It's animation was over seen by Japanese directors by it was largely developed by Americans for Americans. Now here is something that I honestly don't know where to place it. There is a Batman movie that is episodic like the Animatrix but each segment was written and directed by the Japanese directors. I don't believe that there was much involvement from americans in the production. How ever it was still sold to American audiences and I believe primarily marketed toward an American audience. I personally lean more toward it being an animated (cartoon) movie not an anime movie.

You also make this argument,

"What would a Japanese kid call LoK?? An anime or a cartoon? He'd call it an anime, coz that's the word he uses to refer to ANY FORM of animation." Which I think is true. This makes me wonder why you don't call all anime cartoons because you're an american and the american word for anime is cartoon. This is honestly your second best bet, if you can't get a grasp on what shows are and are not anime, just call them all cartoons because that's our word for it.

I believe a good rule of thumb is that if it was released in Japan and adapted for American audiences (subbed or dubbed) it's considered anime. This seems to be the popular and, truthfully, the most accurate definition for anime. The use of the word anime, in our part of the world, being to separate the Japanese animated shows from the American animated shows in an effort to be concise and clear.

In affect neither Korra nor Aang are anime characters. (staying on topic... kind of)

tldr? ...read this

If it's a show that is, written, directed, produced, voice acted, storyboarded, conceptualized, and marketed by americans, but animated by Koreans, it's definitely NOT an anime. Regardless of our opinions of what anime is, if it doesn't touch Japan... how could it be anime?